This Web page: http://tlt.gs/EndersTest
Ender’s Test of Artificial InstructionIs Your Course a Pizza? Who needs teachers? Friday, February 10, 3:15PM ET Onsite & Online Onsite: Arrowhead Room, 3rd Floor, Sheraton Greensboro at Four Seasons, Lilly Conference 2012
This Home Base (Google Doc) Web Page: tlt.gs/EndersGameTest
Brief Intro Ender's Test Info Resources
Session Recordings, Links
LeadersIlene Frank, Steve Gilbert
Description & Invitation Ender’s Test of Artificial InstructionEnder's Test of Artificial Instruction: Is Your Course a Pizza? Who needs teachers?
INVITATION Feb 10 3:15pm ET Free online live tlt.gs/EndersGameTest "Ender's Game" immerses us in a painful mix of the real and artificial in future education. "Ender's Test" will guide/measure development of artificial courses - as the Turing Test does for artificial intelligence. Help us identify essential course elements, how they’re changing, and shape Ender’s Test. [Apologies to Card, Turing & admirers.] Invitations - 500 characters and Longer Version
What activities or features would convince a student who is taking a course that there is a human teacher in a meaningful role, even though the student cannot see/touch/smell the teacher? I.e., what are the characteristics of a “teacherless” course essential to convince the students who take it that they have a teacher? Who cares? Why does/doesn’t this matter? For whom? Challenge: Develop a new test, which I'm tentatively calling "Ender's Test" - a bit of a spoof/allusion to both Ender's Game and Turing Test. The idea is to develop a test for determining whether an undergraduate course is being "taught" by a human or not.... Like the Turing Test for determining whether a device that is communicating with someone is a human or is an "artificial intelligence." The context is the growing pressure on faculty and other academic professionals to adapt, recreate, etc. courses that have been entirely or mostly based on face-to-face interaction and "traditional" teaching/learning resources into "courses" that include more online activities or elements or resources.
Update: We'll shift the focus toward this question, perspective:
The Caring Test for Artificial Instruction In what kinds of courses does caring NOT matter? For which kinds of learners, teachers, purposes, institutions?..... How could or should we develop methods (rubric?) for identifying courses that can benefit more/less from increasing the role of technology and media AND SIMULTANEOUSLY decreasing the role of human teachers and other academic professionals? Courses that are: A. Not good enough for any children B. Good enough for other people's children C. Good enough for my children D. Good enough for all children
Is developing a "test" like that described above likely to be more/less helpful than the following?
TASK: Describe activities/features/patterns/capabilities that would convince a student who is taking a course that there is a human teacher in a meaningful role, even though the students cannot see/touch/smell the teacher. NOTE: Happily, developing a list that accomplishes goal #1 seems unavoidably to accomplish goal #2 at the same time: 1. Identify features/patterns/capabilities of an “artificial” course that would enable it to avoid detection as such... enable it to convince students that they were taking a course with a human being in a significant role. 2. Identify activities/features/patterns/capabilities of a human teacher that are likely to engage students more actively and effectively in a course, that are likely to be perceived as demonstrating why it is important for a human teacher to have a significant role in the course.
Twitter/Email message (sample)[Twitter size version <140 characters - Ideal to have Tweet for marketing and another Tweet for distribution DURING the online session.]
TLTGROUP FRIDAYLIVE INFO tlt.gs/frlvreg
BLOG: tlt.gs/tltswg
FACEBOOK: tlt.gs/facebook
TWITTER: tlt.gs/twitter
TWITTER HASHTAG: #TLTGfridaylive
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Schedule/PlanJan 27, 2012 FridayLive! Usual schedule, including:
Fundamental Questions - tlt.gs/FQanswers
Todd Zakrajsek
1. What do you most want to gain?
2. What do you most cherish and want not to lose?
Google+ Hangouts
POLL - WHO HAS READ ENDER’S GAME? Within 1 year More than 1 year ago, but after year 2000 Between 1990 and 2000 Before 1990 Never
POLL - What was your stage of life when you FIRST read Ender’s Game? Father
Mother
Adult not a parent
Undergraduate
High School
Pre-High School
Never read it
POLL - How many times have you read Ender’s Game? Never Once 2-5 More than 5
SUMMARY OF ENDER’S GAME STORY - Ilene Frank VERY BRIEF history of the story or book as such - influence in Science Fiction Ender Wiggin, age six, is selected by international military forces to be trained to lead. Ender and his parents are given no choice. In Battle School and then in Command School, Ender advances in a computer training game farther than anyone before, and then to simulated battles... before his 10th birthday. The novel depicts a powerful educational system that includes "tracking", simulations, teamwork, projects, and other forms of instruction - even experiential learning. It raises questions about student choice, matching students with instructional options, and the role of computer simulations. - Adapted from http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/endersgame/summary.html
What was the major impact on you from readhing this story/book?
Any favorite or recommended excerpts or related readings?
Watch Whiskey Tango Foxtrot 90 Seconds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10N8096MTGg
POLL
Will you go to the movie?
Yes
No
Depends on reviews
Other
POLL
Reaction to the educational implications - the model of future education
Liked it first time I read it
Disliked it first time I read it
Changed my mind on later reading or later discussion, thinking
Have not changed my mind
NA
CORE DISCUSSION GOALS:
- Educational Implications
- Tech Implications
- Implications for the role of parents in education vs. the role of the state vs. the role of the school administration?
Who is responsible for providing the broader context for those teaching/learning with games and simulations... to avoid the risk of the initial educational goals and issues getting lost as participants become too deeply engrossed in the game/simulation? How avoid losing the baby when throwing out the bath water? Who should have been at the table for the planning and implementation of the educational approach in Ender’s Game? Implications for today? For new TLT Roundtables? ENDER’S TEST
INVITATION Feb 10 3:15pm ET Free online live tlt.gs/EndersGameTest
"Ender's Game" immerses us in a painful mix of the real and artificial in future education. "Ender's Test" will guide/measure development of artificial courses - as the Turing Test does for artificial intelligence. Help us identify essential course elements, how they’re changing, and shape Ender’s Test. [Apologies to Card, Turing & admirers.] In the context of Ender’s Game and the ways in which it has been confirmed or challenged, FQ: WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO GAIN? WHAT DO YOU CHERISH AND WANT NOT TO LOSE?
What’s next? What should/could any of us do next? Next week? in the next few months? For next academic year?
Feb 10, 2012 3:15PM ET Ender’s TestIntro"Pre-Session" - Sample FQ recording and LTA
I. Intro A. Why we're trying this live F2F and online Reflects some of the opportunities and constraints associated with the topic! Need to identify a VOC [voice of the chat} to represent the online participants who are logged in individually Need to identify a VOR [voice of the room] to represent the participants who show up in the meeting room assigned to this session during the Lilly Greensboro 2012 Conference This session will consist of several modules, each beginning with some kind of presentation or media and ending with an invitation for everyone to participate in some way - trying to be very clear about how and the differential in roles of the VOC, VOR and others.
B. What began my interest in developing "Ender's Test" Summary of Ender's Game SUMMARY OF ENDER’S GAME STORY - Ilene Frank VERY BRIEF history of the story or book as such - influence in Science Fiction Ender Wiggin, age six, is selected by international military forces to be trained to lead. Ender and his parents are given no choice. In Battle School and then in Command School, Ender advances in a computer training game farther than anyone before, and then to simulated battles... before his 10th birthday. The novel depicts a powerful educational system that includes "tracking", simulations, teamwork, projects, and other forms of instruction - even experiential learning. It raises questions about student choice, matching students with instructional options, and the role of computer simulations. - Adapted from http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/endersgame/summary.html
DISCUSSION QUESTION OR ACTIVITYRole of VOC, VOR(s) Polls about familiarity with Ender's Game [see Jan 27 polls] Poll about participation in Jan 27 online discussion of Ender's Game
POLL - WHO HAS READ ENDER’S GAME? Within 1 year More than 1 year ago, but after year 2000 Between 1990 and 2000 Before 1990 Never
POLL - What was your stage of life when you FIRST read Ender’s Game? Father
Mother
Adult not a parent
Undergraduate
High School
Pre-High School
Never read it
POLL - How many times have you read Ender’s Game? Never Once 2-5 More than 5
POLL
Will you go to the movie?
Yes
No
Depends on reviews
Other
POLL
Reaction to the educational implications - the model of future education
Liked it first time I read it
Disliked it first time I read it
Changed my mind on later reading or later discussion, thinking
Have not changed my mind
NA
II. Why bother? Why now?
QUESTIONS about "Artificial Instruction" please consider: - What is a course? What are course materials, course resources, course plans, course designs, course activities, course assignments? Who owns what?
What is independent learning? What kinds of learners do not need a teacher for what kinds of learning? What are the characteristics of a “teacherless” course essential to convince the students who take it that they have a teacher? Why do/don't you care? When young people are trained to make video-game-like decisions that result in real explosions, what are the educational implications? Why do/don't you care?
PLENARY LILLY GREENSBORO 2012 8:30AM Variability - "You all think you're seeing, hearing the same thing, but you're not." "Constructive process" All learning includes and depends on affect/emotion [SWG - Sarah Stein NCSU "experiment"- most students believe that advertising, commercials are quite effective but that each of them personally have NOT been influenced by ads, commeercials. Can be extended to other beliefs? Principles? Susan Phillips UNCG Audiologist - "natural" changes of aging apply to OTHERS... The Invisible Gorilla
It is hardest to abandon the hidden hope of wishful thinking
when it is too late to deny the accumulating signs of change
but too early to understand and accept their implications.
That is when we most hope for impossible reassurance:
for an explanation of how we can continue to succeed, as we have for so long,
without changing what we do. - SWG TLT-SWG Blog
A. Summary of previous discussions of Ender's Game and Ender's Test Almost impossible to get people to discuss the design of a test that would confirm that technology had successfully eliminated the need for a live human teacher in an undergrad course without ending up discussing more than I expected (and more than I could avoid) what the characteristics of undergrad courses that do have teachers in which the teachers make important, perhaps essential contributions. So I've begun to be pleased with that pattern, but want to try to get a little further, perhaps in a slighlty different direction, today. To focus on designing or at least describing some elements of a test for instruction that relies more on technology and less in at least some ways on human teachers - and is at least as "successful" as alternatives that rely less on technology and more on teachers. For some teachers, some learners, some purposes, some conditions, ... etc. So here are two scenarios to frame our discussion:
B. DYSTOPIA - Dehumanized Drone Operator Ender's Game Milgram's Experiment Drone Missile
begin with something like this scenario, perhaps with videoclips: SOMEONE WHO IS HAS AN ENTIRELY SHELTERED LIFE/EDUCATION - POSSIBLY INCLUDING LONG SESSIONS ON VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES - THEN JOINS THE ARMY AND BECOMES AN OPERATOR FOR UNMANNED AIRCRAFT MISSILE LAUNCHERS I, and possibly some others, might worry that such an operator might lack some scruples and sensibilties that we might hope would help this person make responsible decisions with some sense of ethics, empathy, etc.
Think about Milgram's experiment, Ender's Game, and this clip from "The Good Wife" - [young soldier operating drone that blows up a car and several people on another continent"] Someone could get an entire K-12 and college education via homeschooling and online courses without ever engaging in a frequent, fluid, meaningful way with more than a couple of peers, parents, and neighbors. And then that person could join the army and end up operating unmanned drone aircraft with missiles see 2011 "Air Force Drone Operators Report High Levels of Stress,... the operators’ jobs: watching hours of close-up video of people killed in drone strikes. After a strike, operators assess the damage, and unlike fighter pilots who fly thousands of feet above their targets, drone operators can see in vivid detail what they have destroyed [many thousands of miles away on another continent]. " - "Air Force Drone Operators Report High Levels of Stress," by Elisabeth Bumiller, December 18, 2011 New York Timeshttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/19/world/asia/air-force-drone-operators-show-high-levels-of-stress.html
C. True Life Family in Rural USA 2012 - Good Beginnings - Combining new, recent, and traditional options for children's education and life in family and community. Example where the role of tech in education, even in a pattern/example quite independent of "traditional" options, can be very effective, responsible, well-rounded.
GOOD example of the BEGINNINGS of how people can combine a variety of new/recent and old options to provide a potentially valuable new kind of education - which can and will most likely differ a lot in response to different families' goals and needs and different resources becoming available and having one of the parents who is well able to identify and take advantage of new options.
, social networking relationships & activities, playing acoustical musical instruments in non-virtual marching band, competitive flippy cups, church group highish-tech internet-connected pedometer fund-raising, attitude about history courses taught by showing R-rated movies in full in classroom, ... [I think this story is even better in the context of the mother's variety of work/educ experiences and recent ability to use and growing reliance on voice recognition tools] It might not be so terrifying for the rest of us if these children ended up as drone operators... but I hope they won't!
D DISCUSSION QUESTION OR ACTIVITY FQ Activity
III. Re-orienting Ender's Test: The role of "Caring" in the Lilly Test or WGU Test
Less like Turing Test, more like a "Lilly Test"(nice option) or the "Western Governors' University Test" (nasty option) Recognize that it's probalby not so important whether students can be certain that that do or don't have a teacher in their course. More important that the course provides a combination of resources, guidance, engagement or disengagement, suitable tot he needs and intentions of everyone who is being served by it. NOTE: "everyone who is being served by a course" certianly includes the learners, but quite often includes a variety of other constituencies and beneficiaries - whether they be intentional or unintentional, aware or unaware of their status.
Several student panels and other reports from participants at Lilly Conferences and elsewhere in recent years reconfirmed the great importance and impact of "caring" in undergraduate courses. I sometimes believe that "engagement" is a portmanteau code word for several kinds of caring: faculty who care about their subject and their students; students who care about their peers and learning; academic professionals who care about providing effective teaching/learning resources in conjunction with courses; and so on...
QUESTIONS about "Artificial Instruction" please consider as background or context for next discussion: - What is a course? What are course materials, course resources, course plans, course designs, course activities, course assignments? Who owns what?
What is independent learning? What kinds of learners do not need a teacher for what kinds of learning? What are the characteristics of a “teacherless” course essential to convince the students who take it that they have a teacher? Why do/don't you care? When young people are trained to make video-game-like decisions that result in real explosions, what are the educational implications? Why do/don't you care?
Role of VOC, VOR(s)
In what kinds of courses does caring NOT matter? For which kinds of learners, teachers, purposes, institutions?.....
IV. Proposal: The Caring Test for Artificial Instruction Develop methods (rubric?) for identifying courses that can benefit more/less from increasing the role of technology and media AND SIMULTANEOUSLY decreasing the role of human teachers and other academic professionals A. Not good enough for any children B. Good enough for other people's children C. Good enough for my children D. Good enough for all children
A. No satisfactory way at this time to use technology in this kind of course to reduce the role of people, esp. teachers, and still provide a course that would be considered adequate for anyone.
B. Some ways available at this time to use technology in this kind of course to reduce the role of people, esp. teachers, and still provide a course that would be considered adequate for some learners. except that some learners might prefer and benefit from this alternative.
C. Some ways available at this time to use technology in this kind of course to reduce the role of people, esp. teachers, and still provide a course that would be considered adequate for most learners. Most of those who can afford higher fees and who know about this option would be likely to choose it. But some learners might choose other options for idiosyncratic reasons and resist pressure to abandon their favored, but recognize by many as inferior, alternatives.
D. Some ways available at this time to use technology in this kind of course to reduce the role of people, esp. teachers, andl provide a course that would be considered better for most learners than any previous or current alternatives. Only learners with perverse notions would choose other options. Most would happily abandon previously favored options.
DISCUSSION QUESTION OR ACTIVITY Identify examples of categories A and D above. Discuss usefulness/uselessness of B, C. Consider combining B & C.
V. Next Steps DISCUSSION QUESTION OR ACTIVITY Role of VOC, VOR(s) What kinds of pressure are you under that might be ameliorated by doing something with this kind of test?
What might you do soon, with a few colleagues, to take a small step in this helpful direction? Be as specific as possible
Join us on Friday <DATE> 2pm ET for a follow-up. Volunteers for updates, progress reports? NOTE: Progress reports could be about changes in the pressures you've identified here Resources or atitudes you encountered that either enabled or impeded your expected progress
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What’s the difference between “real” and “artificial” courses? <create this video> Why bother? Who cares? When does caring matter?[Is the goal of AI - Artificial Instruction similar to that of AI - Artificial Intelligence? I.e., to be able to convince people who interact with AI that they are dealing with human beings?] <Most of this section should be presented via YouTube video: AFTER video ask “Why, how was this different from my doing this section live?” See Turing Test ; See publishers offerings of “entire” courses, course sequences that colleges/universities can “rebrand” as their own; add story about teacher’s wife working invisibly in his online courses>
What activities or features would convince a student who is taking a course that there is a human teacher in a meaningful role, even though the student cannot see/touch/smell the teacher? I.e., what are the characteristics of a “teacherless” course essential to convince the students who take it that they have a teacher? Who cares? Why does/doesn’t this matter? For whom?
Challenge: Develop a new test, which I'm tentatively calling "Ender's Test" - a bit of a spoof/allusion to both Ender's Game and Turing Test. The idea is to develop a test for determining whether an undergraduate course is being "taught" by a human or not.... Like the Turing Test for determining whether a device that is communicating with someone is a human or is an "artificial intelligence." The context is the growing pressure on faculty and other academic professionals to adapt, recreate, etc. courses that have been entirely or mostly based on face-to-face interaction and "traditional" teaching/learning resources into "courses" that include more online activities or elements or resources.
TASK: Describe activities/features/patterns/capabilities that would convince a student who is taking a course that there is a human teacher in a meaningful role, even though the students cannot see/touch/smell the teacher.NOTE: Happily, developing a list that accomplishes goal #1 seems unavoidably to accomplish goal #2 at the same time: 1. Identify features/patterns/capabilities of an “artificial” course that would enable it to avoid detection as such... enable it to convince students that they were taking a course with a human being in a significant role. 2. Identify activities/features/patterns/capabilities of a human teacher that are likely to engage students more actively and effectively in a course, that are likely to be perceived as demonstrating why it is important for a human teacher to have a significant role in the course.
ESSENTIALQ&A Being able to provide meaningful answers to questions asked by students OWNERSHIP Being able to “make the course your own” Even when two or more teachers use identical syllabi, reading lists, LMS modules, “lesson plans”, ….
OPINIONS Being able to express an opinion in response to questions/statements from students RELATIONSHIPS Being able to establish and build relationships with students
HELPFUL BUT NOT ESSENTIALINTERRUPTIONS Being able to permit and respond meaningfully to students’ interruptions Being able to replicate human interruption patterns, responses, … Technical telecommunications issues (full- vs. half- duplex, etc.) Social/cultural differences; issues
CARING Being able to convince students that the teacher cares about them individually, as a group Being able to convince students that the teacher cares about the subject matter, the course contents Being able to demonstrate or emulate empathy!
INDIVIDUALITY Being able to present, during the course, personal memories, ideas, opinions related to the subject Being able to communicate to the students a “sense of character” for the teacher; e.g., speech patterns (fast, slow, …) communication traits; persona Being able to have a unique “voice” Being able to offer random idiosyncracies AMUSING(?) Being able to generate at least one student rating on RateMyProfessors.Com!
NOTE: Just reviewed the ratings for Richard Rorty and added a new one (I do not have an account of any kind at RateMyProfessors) today Nov. 30, 2011. I have not seen or spoken with him in many hears. He was my adviser for my undergraduate Junior Paper, and a very highly regarded teacher and thinker. He died on June 8, 2007
Happy Weekend!
| Text Chat Transcript <Date>
Related Tweets using Hashtag #fridaylive
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Plagiarism & Self-Plagiarism
Plagiarism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism
" The modern ideals for originality and against plagiarism appeared in the 18th century, in the context of the economic and political history of the book trade, which will be exemplary and influential for the subsequent broader introduction of capitalism.[22] Originality, that traditionally had been deemed as impossible, was turned into an obligation by the emerging ideology of individualism.[10][13] In 1755 the word made it into Johnson's influential A Dictionary of the English Language, where he was cited in the entry for copier ("One that imitates; a plagiary; an imitator. Without invention a painter is but a copier, and a poet but a plagiary of others."), and in its own entry denoting both A thief in literature ("one who steals the thoughts or writings of another") and The crime of literary theft.[7][23]
Later in the 18th century, the Romantic movement completed the transformation of the previous ideas about literature, developing the Romantic myth of artistic inspiration, which believes in the "individualised, inimitable act of literary creation", in the ideology of the "creation from nothingness" of a text which is an "autonomous object produced by an individual genious."[5][12][21][24][25][26][27]
Despite the 18th century new morals, and their current enforcement in the ethical codes of academia and journalism, the arts, by contrast, not only have resisted in their long-established tradition of copying as a fundamental practice of the creative process,[12][13][14]but with the boom of the modernist and postmodern movements, this practice has been accelerated, spread, increased, dramatically amplifyied to an unprecedented degree, to the point that has been heightened as the central and representative artistic device of these movements.[15][16][12] Plagiarism remains tolerated by 21st century artists.[13][14]"
...
....
Self-Plagiarism
"The concept of "self-plagiarism" has been challenged as self-contradictory or an oxymoron.[44][edit]
The concept of self-plagiarism
For example, Stephanie J. Bird[45] argues that self-plagiarism is a misnomer, since by definition plagiarism concerns the use of others' material.
However, the phrase is used to refer to specific forms of potentially unethical publication. Bird identifies the ethical issues sometimes called "self-plagiarism" as those of "dual or redundant publication." She also notes that in an educational context, "self-plagiarism" may refer to the case of a student who resubmits "the same essay for credit in two different courses." As David B. Resnik clarifies, "Self-plagiarism involves dishonesty but not intellectual theft."[46]
According to Patrick M. Scanlon[47]
"Self-plagiarism" is a term with some specialized currency. Most prominently, it is used in discussions of research and publishing integrity in biomedicine, where heavy publish-or-perish demands have led to a rash of duplicate and "salami-slicing" publication, the reporting of a single study's results in "least publishable units" within multiple articles (Blancett, Flanagin, & Young, 1995; Jefferson, 1998; Kassirer & Angell, 1995; Lowe, 2003; McCarthy, 1993; Schein & Paladugu, 2001; Wheeler, 1989). Roig (2002) offers a useful classification system including four types of self-plagiarism: duplicate publication of an article in more than one journal; partitioning of one study into multiple publications, often called salami-slicing; text recycling; and copyright infringement.
[edit]Self-plagiarism and codes of ethics
Some academic journals have codes of ethics which specifically refer to self-plagiarism. For example, the Journal of International Business Studies.[48]
Some professional organizations like the Association for Computing Machinery (ACM) have created policies that deal specifically with self-plagiarism.[49]
Other organisations do not make specific reference to self-plagiarism:
The American Political Science Association (APSA) has published a code of ethics which describes plagiarism as "deliberate appropriation of the works of others represented as one's own." It does not make any reference to self-plagiarism. It does say that when a thesis or dissertation is published "in whole or in part", the author is "not ordinarily under an ethical obligation to acknowledge its origins."[50]
The American Society for Public Administration (ASPA) has published a code of ethics which says its members are committed to: "Ensure that others receive credit for their work and contributions," but it does not make any reference to self-plagiarism.[51]
[edit]Factors that justify reuse
Pamela Samuelson in 1994 identified several factors which excuse reuse of one's previously published work without the culpability of self-plagiarism.[43] She relates each of these factors specifically to the ethical issue of self-plagiarism, as distinct from the legal issue of fair use of copyright, which she deals with separately. Among other factors which may excuse reuse of previously published material Samuelson lists the following:
The previous work needs to be restated in order to lay the groundwork for a new contribution in the second work.
Portions of the previous work must be repeated in order to deal with new evidence or arguments.
The audience for each work is so different that publishing the same work in different places was necessary to get the message out.
The author thinks they said it so well the first time that it makes no sense to say it differently a second time.
Samuelson states she has relied on the "different audience" rationale when attempting to bridge interdisciplinary communities. She refers to writing for different legal and technical communities, saying: "there are often paragraphs or sequences of paragraphs that can be bodily lifted from one article to the other. And, in truth, I lift them." She refers to her own practice of converting "a technical article into a law review article with relatively few changes—adding footnotes and one substantive section" for a different audience.[43]
Samuelson describes misrepresentation as the basis of self-plagiarism. She seems less concerned about reuse of descriptive materials than ideas and analytical content.[43] She also states "Although it seems not to have been raised in any of the self-plagiarism cases, copyrights law's fair use defense would likely provide a shield against many potential publisher claims of copyright infringement against authors who reused portions of their previous works."[43]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism#cite_note-Alfrey-12
"
Ender's Game Plot SummaryEnding Omitted - Movie Coming? Ender Wiggin, age six, is selected by international military forces to be trained to lead. Ender and his parents are given no choice.
In Battle School and then in Command School, Ender advances in a computer training game farther than anyone before, and then to simulated battles... before his 10th birthday.
The novel depicts a powerful educational system that includes "tracking", simulations, teamwork, projects, and other forms of instruction - even experiential learning. It raises questions about student choice, matching students with instructional options, and the role of computer simulations.
Adapted from http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/endersgame/summary.html
Is Your Course a Pizza? Ender’s Test What is a course? What are course materials, course resources? Information, activities, plans, … that enable learning in a course.. necessary but not sufficient What is independent learning?
- Excerpts from notes for CUNY keynote 20111202 What is a course? One or more human beings leading a larger group in learning. What are course materials, course resources? Information, activities, plans, … that enable learning in a course.. necessary but not sufficient What is independent learning? [Audo-Didact Univ.] An individual using course materials without the intentional leadership or guidance of others.
Are the majority of current and potential students likely to learn well in the way you are advocating? Isn’t that the way in which you believe you learn(ed) well? Or, even more likely, the way you believe you would like to learn?
A Course is Not a Pizza - Who owns your course? Who cares?
What’s the difference between “real” and “artificial” courses? Readings about Drones, etc.
TEXT CHAT TRANSCRIPT January 27, 2012
David McCurry, TLT Group:Welcome to Friday Live!
David McCurry, TLT Group:Hi Ilene
Ilene Frank:Hi, everyone!
Ilene Frank:Cris, glad you could make it!
Cris2B:Hi all.
Cris2B:Thx Ilene!
Cris2B:Cool music . . .
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Hi everyone!
Cris2B:Hi Sally!
David McCurry, TLT Group:(Stepping away for a few minutes) be right back.
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Where are you, Cris/
Cris2B:I'm in Raleigh, NC
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Article about your governor in the paper this am
Cris2B:That's right. Big surprise!
Thomas M. Nosek:Tom Nosek
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Hi Thomas - Glad to see someone from a former subscribing institutionIN THE HOUSE!
Cris2B:y
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:sonds gritty
Cris2B:sounds good
John Munro:overdriving?
Elena Garofoli:still a bit loud
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:might be your mouth is too close to the mic
Ilene Frank:Yep! It looks ok!
Cris2B:Yep, me, too
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Now playing brief recording of ToddZ answering TLTG's Fundamental Questions - welcome more from you! http://tlt.gs/FQanswers
Cris2B:yes, thoughtful
Beth Dailey:Very interesting
Ilene Frank:Good thoughts!
Linda Serro:I'm in.
Cris2B:Hangouts are fun!
Elena Garofoli:yes, I've had excellent expereince w/ google +
Elena Garofoli:hangouts in particular
Ilene Frank:I tried to participate in the hangout today - but my computer kept crashing. I'm still not sure what the problem is - but I'll figure it out eventually.
Beth Dailey:I like the online office hour option
Beth Dailey:I'd like to give it a try
Beth Dailey:yes
Elena Garofoli:y
Cris2B:yes
Leslie Harris:Yes
Ilene Frank:Yes we can hear
Michael - BYU:yes
Thomas M. Nosek:We can
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:soft
Colleen:sounds good
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:I hear you, but the icons for the speaker and the mic disappeared
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:dkdk
Cris2B:Cris Crissman aka 2B Writer in the Bookhenge in Second Life where I teach for NC State U
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Colleen - Are you from ASU?
Ilene Frank:Hi! I'm in Tampa - retired librarian teaching online courses
Ilene Frank:I'm in Tampa FL
Elena Garofoli:Boston here - (go Patriots)
jane marcus:I'm in northern California - semi-retired and consulting at Stanford where I worked for 35 years
Allison Bernknopf:I'm here in MI but originally from Jersey so (Go Giants!!)
Beth Dailey:Hi I'm a Faculty Training Specialist for EDMC. I live in Wausau, WI
Elena Garofoli::-)
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:ssdds
Cris2B:long pregnant pause ;-)
John Munro:ds?
Beth Dailey:Where is Mi are you from Allison. I grew up in Escanaba
jane marcus:nothing there!
Allison Bernknopf:I'm in Kalamazoo. I teach Pharmacy for Ferris.
Michael - BYU:Michael Johnson, Sr. Instructional Designer at BYU's Center for Teaching and Learning (Provo, UT)
John Munro:chat works, no audio anywhere
Cris2B:this should be interesting
Leslie Harris:Now there's audio
John Munro:yes!
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:oops
Ilene Frank:That's working!
Cris2B:oh right!
Allison Bernknopf:yes
jane marcus:you are back
Beth Dailey:I graduated from Ferris in dental hygiene and allied health teacher ed a long time ago.
Michael - BYU:yep
Cris2B:yes
John Munro:yes, all
Ilene Frank:Yes we heard the orientation
Allison Bernknopf:Beth. It's a small word
Allison Bernknopf:world
Elena Garofoli:We love technology :-)
Allen:Overdriving Steve's mic -- lots of distortion.
Beth Dailey:yes it is
Beth Dailey:yes
Allison Bernknopf:better
John Munro:yes
Colleen:yes
Allen:Yep.
Ilene Frank:Yes better!
Patricia Brennan, James P. Adams Library:still some distortion
David McCurry, TLT Group:Sorry for the tech hiccups.
Cris2B:y
Hope Sun:yes
Allison Bernknopf:yes
Elena Garofoli:n
Ilene Frank:Yes, we can see the scrolling
Cris2B:no not hand
Beth Dailey:I read the short story, does that count?
Ilene Frank:Yes, Beth - the short story counts ;)
Priscilla Stadler:read it after you mentioned it during your keynote at the CUNY IT conference
Cris2B:relative is well, relative ;-)
Patrick Wiseman:Just read it a couple of weeks ago, on recommendation of a student
Cris2B:perspective matters
Michael - BYU:I was a graduate student at teh time too
David J Matthes:it really resonated when I was in graduate school
Michael - BYU:ha ha
Dolores Brzycki:her audio is quiet
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Big issue when discussing Ender's Game is whether or not to reveal the ending.. so, "spoiler alert" - we will. If that will ruin your first reading, pls don't listen!
Cris2B:@Doloes -- I think you can turn her up using drop down menu under green speaker at top
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Ender'sGame - education - esp. military
Cris2B:liked the desks
Elena Garofoli:training vs. education
Debra Andreadis, Denison University:I read it in high school, and reread it with my daughter last year.
David McCurry, TLT Group:Bugs were the bad aliens in Starship Trooper as well.
Cris2B:Interestingly, Ender sensed he needed to understand the history and the culture of the buggers
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@Debra- what caused you to read with your daughter?
Leslie Harris:Don't they study military history? =
Debra Andreadis, Denison University:She had it as an option for summer reading before her senior year in high school
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:See letters published in _The Authorized Ender Companion_ by Jake Black - give powerful glimpse of impact of Ender's Game on young readers
Maida Tilchen:No ethics, morality, religion, or spirituality is taught.
Allen:At least two of my three daughters read it.
emma bourassa:I think that is the key- training. They are trained for an 'us and them' worldview
Elena Garofoli:@ maida exactly
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Lots of implications about why children should NOT trust adults!
Elena Garofoli:heh
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:sounds kind of like english "public" school
Cris2B:"Individual humans beings are all tools"Col. Graff to Ender, p. 35
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Some of the letters from young readers describe how accurately they believe the description of the young children is.
William Vilberg:Purely active learning.
David J Matthes:Ender was learning practical military strategy pretty much exclusively (and with significant moral hazard in the process), but the idea of immersion learning seems to make it of more general interest.
emma bourassa:Interesting, if I remember, he is drugged to keep his sexual needs at bay- maybe even redirect for another purpose- to win the game?
Leslie Harris:The battle games help them practice battle stragegy
Leslie Harris:strategy
Elena Garofoli:it is certainly interactive
Priscilla Stadler:what would it mean if they were immersed in another "subject", like philosophy or peace studies?
William Vilberg:Can you give me audio?
Leslie Harris:We get a sense in the novel that those games against other teams help Ender prepare for the ultimate battle
Ilene Frank:Well, it turns out that the soldiers are engaged in a real battle - not just a game
Allison Bernknopf:sitting at a terminal wilth no imput from somone else would not really fall in a traditional definition of active learning
Ann Randall:active learning... but not active learning to think critically
Elena Garofoli:@emma I didn't remember that
David McCurry, TLT Group:Should be able to click on the mic icon above, turn it greenl.
emma bourassa:I would offer active learning as doing something or being engaged in something that is as authentic as possible, so not necessarily moving, but participating in a 'real' as possible context.
Allen:Except there is input from others via the terminal.
David McCurry, TLT Group:Good
Dolores Brzycki:seems like this active learning does not take the final step, which is to connect it to the real world and real consewuences. In Nursing, for example, that happens in clinicals and after graduation.
Allen:He's interacting with other team leaders, as well as the Buggers.
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:WV - "active learning" because of complete ENGAGEMENT of learners in the tasks
Cris2B:I'd say it's active. Stephen Hawking is actively learning and sharing though his options to share are limited.
Ilene Frank:Dolores, that's true - the children don't know that they are engaged in a real world activitiy.
Ann Randall:learning by doing -- but doing what they are told - yes "tasks"
Allen:Yes, the real world connection isn't there until the subsequent books.
emma bourassa:active learning is also task based learning- he's learning to be a soldier
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:WV: "active learning" because frequently "interactive"
David McCurry, TLT Group:It was experiential, but the experience was not authentic in that it was not actually what the believed it to be.
Elena Garofoli:so does active learning need to have an applied component?
Beth Dailey:They were certainly having active experiences
Allen:Ann -- while they have tasks, Ender succeeds by breaking the rules imposed by the trainers.
Priscilla Stadler:it's active learning but do the learners have a choice?
Allison Bernknopf:giving choices is more of an issue of learner centered versus teacher centered
Elena Garofoli:@priscilla. does it matter whether it is active learning or not?
Elena Garofoli:i think not
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Priscilla: CHOICE related to active learning?
Patrick Wiseman:Active ≠ constructivist
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:can real learning emerge from manipulation?
Beth Dailey:Providing choice tends to provide greater learner satisfaction
Cris2B:I think the culture is such that individuals are tools and so learner-centered isn't an option.
Anne Reever Osborne, Tusculum College:Is there a choice to say No?
Elena Garofoli:@sally great Q!
Allen:Except in the "game" on the computer -- that was free learning, where Ender chooses what he wants to do.
Ilene Frank:Cris2B, I wonder if that's one of the lessons - individuals are always in service of the state.
Allison Bernknopf:choices can also help them become critical thinkers because they have to think for themselves
Leslie Harris:I think at one point in the novel Ender does indeed say "no," but that it out of depression
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Certainly in our system, we don't give students the option to say NO
Cris2B:@Allen -- that's right that "the end of the world" game and free time was off-limits for control
Elena Garofoli:@Leslie and that is when they bring in his sister
Elena Garofoli:more manipulation
emma bourassa:Sometimes kids learn by not being able to do things as well- for safety etc. It's interesting that we are looking at a child's learning, but perhaps intellectualizing it from our more sage experience of what learning should be. Just a thought.
Priscilla Stadler:a lot of Ender's angst for most of the book stems from being forced to participate in the learning situation
Michael - BYU:@Sally, depends on what you mean by real learning.
David J Matthes:They chose to sign up for the program. They choose how to go into battle. Our students choose to take our courses and how much effort (and what kind of effort ) to put in, but the instructor still is in the driver seat in that they designed the syllabus, schedule, activities, etc. The scaffold can be elaborate or spare.
Cris2B:@Ilene -- Bingo! To me that is the message -- the individual vs the collective
Dolores Brzycki:Choice is also something that often has to be done in the real world. So there is another gap between this learning and reality.
Leslie Harris:Yes (to Priscilla). At some point Ender objects to the fact that he has so little choice.
Ann Randall:So we can deduce that "active learning" is not enough. Real education needs other elements: choice, questions of what is good, learning to analyze and criticize.
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:WV: soviet cold war education of "grooming" olympic athletes similar to Ender's Game
Beth Dailey:I only read the short story, was Ender forced to participate in the school?
mallen@colby-sawyer.edu:not hearing anything...
Debra Andreadis, Denison University:Actually, there was no choice in joining the program. We learn later that he was even "bred" for this task.
Cris2B:@Beth -- he did have a choice.
Ilene Frank:Beth, at age 6 he was asked if he'd be ready to leave his family and join battle school.
Priscilla Stadler:grooming or breeding children to become expert in certain roles is not unique...
Maida Tilchen:He had a choice between going or staying home and being the victim of his psycho brother
Cris2B:Well, Col. Graff gave him the choice and wanted him to articulate why he'd go
emma bourassa:We control education now by adhering to a course outline that is approved by....so it raises the question about how do we know someone learns and how can we control that learning given different contexts and players?
Beth Dailey:grooming or breeding to be members of society... seems like a goal of education\
Allison Bernknopf:many of us have to provide the outline/objectives because we have accreditation standards to conform to much like the military does
Priscilla Stadler:@Maida - that's true, it offered him an escape,
Priscilla Stadler:that he really needed
Elena Garofoli:yes
Beth Dailey:or members of a profession
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:IF: key question - learning for individual purposes or as becoming part of society
Elena Garofoli:anarchy
Priscilla Stadler:what is the difference between grooming and indoctrination?
Cris2B:It really is an interesting question to whether or not in our countries that all children have the choices they should
Thomas M. Nosek:You find people who always "game" the system and will "cheat" to accomplish their goals.
Maida Tilchen:the home-schooling movement is a way to make different chioces of what is taught.
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Grooming vs. Indoctrination; Manipulation vs Education
Cris2B:Choices as to life goals and social futures
Elena Garofoli:it could be at long as that is not all that there is
Beth Dailey:is design manipulation? hmmm.... interesting
Thomas M. Nosek:Students do not recognize what they are doing as cheating - "gaming" is an acceptable strategy.
Elena Garofoli:it is the spiritual, humanity, morals that is totally missing
Allison Bernknopf:Thomas - I agree
Elena Garofoli:and that is what makes an education
emma bourassa:Does this story make anyone consider the No Child Left behind or other policy that drives the classes that drives the outcomes? How is the novel different from societal education now?
Cris2B:Speculative fiction -- many. The Giver by Lois Lowry for sure
William Vilberg:Teaching is manipulation. Automatically. In my opinion...
Leslie Harris:Ender's Shadow provides Bean's view of the same time period
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@ Beth - that question reminds me of how we have to stereotype to a certain degree in order not to be immobile. but the more stereotyping we do, the worser...
Leslie Harris:We get to see the same "battle school" environment
Maida Tilchen:if you read up on Orson Scott Card on the internet, you will find out his politics.
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@ Emma- right on!
William Vilberg:I was struck by the concerns of the person in charge.
Cris2B:More speculative fiction -- http://thechangeproject.wikispaces.com/
Priscilla Stadler:@Elena, yet Ender (and Valentine) somehow find or hold on to their ethics
emma bourassa:yes, the Giver, and there is a film by Atom Egoyan called Adoration that looks at the same theme of manipulation and 'learning' about who one is in the world
Maida Tilchen:The book has an ongoing homoerotic element, but he is very homophobic
William Vilberg:He led everying, but he questioned whether it was fair and "right."
Cris2B:@Emma -- thx. will check out the film
Maida Tilchen:Not relevant to this discussion, but it interested me
David J Matthes:I like the part where he realizes that he doesn't need to think as if he were on earth, with gravity, anymore. That we need break from our habitual / conventional thinking to be truly creative, to make breaktrhoughs.
Ann Randall:Isn't there a huge contrast between training to fit within the current society with its existing power structures and inequalities vs learning to relate to others in a way that respects all members of society.
Leslie Harris:Yes (to David). I still remember the training question of "Which way is up?"
David McCurry, TLT Group:http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/endersgame/summary.html
Cris2B:Card was a controversial choice for YA Lifetime Achievement Award from ALA because of his politics
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@ Maida- I don't think it's irrelevant to the book discussion. It reflects even more about the narrow kind of education Ender is subjected to.
Leslie Harris:The idea is to abandon one's mistaken assumptions and presuppositions
David McCurry, TLT Group:Sorry, not that link...
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:http://youtu.be/10N8096MTGg
Ilene Frank:Ender is great at problem-solving within the context of the battle games
emma bourassa:What speaks to me is how the people of the society comply and don't question. In collectivist cultures this is common. Interesting how international students react to my assumption that challenging me/questions etc. is expected.
William Vilberg:Ender's understanding that to keep someone from reacting, you have to act so bad that they won't consider anything by going away. Of course, he ends up killing people, unknowingly to him, in the process.
Cris2B:I enjoy seeing how Ender applies complexity theory unknowingly in his decision-making
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@Ilene- That's what lots of people say about some very successful students. Once they're out, they aren't very sparkling.
Priscilla Stadler:sorry, where's the link??
emma bourassa:Chris, do explain :)
Allison Bernknopf:That is the difference between book smarts and practical application. I want those who don't necessarily do as well but can apply the information practically
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:http://youtu.be/10N8096MTGg
David J Matthes:Isn't it interesting to have someone with such a clear personal / family tradition of following doctrine (and covenants...) should write a book that explores an individual's awakening to living other people's agendas, and the need to think differently...
David McCurry, TLT Group:Click on the link, and it should open a browser window on your computer.
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:NOW TAKING 2 MINUTES OF SILENCE FOR EVERYONE TO WATCH YOUTUBE VIDEO CLIP
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:http://youtu.be/10N8096MTGg
Cris2B:@emma -- Read Ender and then heard Dave Snowden speak on complexity theory in action -- made big connection --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynefin
Elena Garofoli:hmmmmm
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@David- wow! and he was not only raised that way, but he's still a "good soldier" himself
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:1 Minute Remaining
emma bourassa:wasn't there another film in the 80s when computers just came out- a teen film something to do with a 'game'?
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:ONE MINUTE REMANING
Allison Bernknopf:War Games
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:[War Games]
Allison Bernknopf:matthew broderick movie
emma bourassa:First thought- she's called the GOOD wife, why?
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:15 Seconds of silence left
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:WE'RE BACK! HOPE YOU CAN HEAR US!
Elena Garofoli:i remember hearing that soldiers who kill remotely have as much, if not more PTSD than those who fight F2F
emma bourassa:Thanks Allison
Beck Andre, Lynn University:whew
Elena Garofoli:y
Cris2B:Realistic
Beck Andre, Lynn University:realistic
Leslie Harris:Realistic but not real
emma bourassa:Possible, yes
Allison Bernknopf:realistic
Elena Garofoli:realistic if not real
Ilene Frank:very realistic
Patrick Wiseman:Realistic
Beth Dailey:it seemed realistic to me :(
Arta Szathmar:realistic and scarry
Ilene Frank:But I hope they didn't really kiill anyone for the TV show
Priscilla Stadler:reminds me of drones
Linda Serro:realistic
jane marcus:realistic - reminds me of drone warfare - just what steve is now talking about
Dolores Brzycki:realistic - like targeting from plane or operator elsewhere removed from scene
Ilene Frank:This is another report on that from Slate magazine: http://goo.gl/VtFLJ
emma bourassa:Think about the language- the target, not the people/the civilians. Do they have upfront view?
Dolores Brzycki:What IS causing the stress of drone operators?
Cris2B:Was talking to friend about artillery that Japanese in WWII could shoot over the horizon (25 to 30 miles). In a way this is more "evil" because unknowns die and not targeted individuals
David J Matthes:How we love to think that technology will make our power to do "good" so much easier. Is it any less morally disturbing than the hired assassin doing his/her work?
Leslie Harris:It is a similar issue of "killing without getting your hands dirty"
Leslie Harris:Killing by remote computer "game"
emma bourassa:Yes, it perpetuates an aspect of the human condition that is survival, what one does for survival and the power of perpetually having a world view of us and them
Joy Mark:Video (I believe NPR/Frontline origin) Digital Nation has whole sections on video/simulation involvement to bring in young teens as recruits to Army
Dolores Brzycki:But some training by simulation does cause emotional consequences. Code blue is not good to run with beginning nursing students because they lose a "patient", which is very upsetting.
Allison Bernknopf:Having dealt with students for years now, it is amazing how many will actually cut corners or "play the game" to get to the end goal of graduating.
Priscilla Stadler:the way it was kept from Ender that he killed 2 classmates while defending himself was powerful...as was his emotional devastation even about hurting others
emma bourassa:Delores, interesting contrast for students looking to 'save' a person.
Cris2B:@Allison -- we all play games ;-)
Maida Tilchen:it's hard because if you insist there be values in education, then who chooses the values?
Dolores Brzycki:Education needs to taek an extra step and make the connection with reality.
Patrick Wiseman:We shouldn't shield our students from the real.
Patricia Brennan, James P. Adams Library:Self-preservation - very different from people as "collateral damage"
Allison Bernknopf:We do all play games but they will cross ethical/moral lines that could potentially kill patients (I'm in pharmacy)
Joy Mark:That emotional engagement was one of the biggest impact of the book on me
William Vilberg:Ender knows how to do "war" better than anyone else. He learned it in "school." Good education.
Joy Mark:especially the lack of protection by adults
Leslie Harris:There's the related question of education by simulation
Priscilla Stadler:bullying is real...but di we just let it go on and leave students to deal with it on their own?
Ilene Frank:Bill, yes! If you wanted the result of getting rid of the buggers, it was a great education!
Joy Mark:mine own engagement/emotional reaction with the book...
Patrick Wiseman:It was because Ender thought it wasn't real that he was able to "win" in the end.
William Vilberg:But Ender really rose above the education. He went beyond where his teachers had been. He went beyond the last problem in the computer game.
Joy Mark:I admittedly hadn't ever thought about the book from a more "professional" standpoint, especially as I read it well before being involved in higher ed
Priscilla Stadler:@Patrick..agreed
David J Matthes:I think there are very compelling aspects of Ender's Game that transfer to educational settings. It is tremendously compelling that students (people) should be able to learn from real(istic) experiences. It is the appeal of a design class where students design a real product, an MBA course where student make a business plan for an actual "client", where computer programmers leraning crytopgraphy try to break into a encrypted file... The fact that we can learn much better from a designed experience is what is compelling.
Cris2B:Could Ender have "pulled the trigger" if he knew it was no game?
Elena Garofoli:i wouls say Ender went beyond the "Training", not education
Leslie Harris:This discussion has been really interesting, in terms of questions about computer-based education
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@Joy- me too
Leslie Harris:What if the education is manipulative?
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:IF - what do you thnk about increasing use of videos, simulations in education?
Maida Tilchen:I don't think the simulation matters. The scientists who designed the atom bomb, under similar pressure from the government, did not use simulations to train.
Ilene Frank:http://research.microsoft.com/apps/video/default.aspx?id=103931
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:as a positive example?
Dolores Brzycki:It reminded me of the emotional component and real consequences of applying what we have learnned. When I was a student of German, I learned what the real response was from calling someone a sort of bad name in a foreign language. I haven't forgotten it for 40 years.
emma bourassa:The design aspect of learning is one aspect, but there is also the motivation of the students . Check this out:http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/digitalnation/view/
Cris2B:James Paul Gee on games and assessment -- http://www.edutopia.org/james-gee-video
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:http://tlt.gs/EndersGameTest
Allison Bernknopf:I think utilizing technology is huge as long as it is done appropriately. Many of my students play video games so learning simulations from them can really help
David J Matthes:I agree there are limits to how computers can be used. But why not use them where they facilitate well and use in-person interactions where they make more sense.
Beth Dailey:Maybe there is honest and dishonest manipulation
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Any more books that rereading now - as educators - changes the impact?
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@Beth- YES!
Allison Bernknopf:When I was a student we basically used a video game like simulation that taught us how some medications will affect the nervous system. Learned much better than listening to someone talk about them.
Maida Tilchen:Read about the Manhattan Project and the effect it had on scientists such as Oppenheimer and Teller.
emma bourassa:maybe an aside, but I heard there is a state that is going to take handwriting out of the curriculum and this would speak to a assumption of computers in eduction what do you think?
Priscilla Stadler:I wish we could have immersive environments that would focus on negotiation and peace studies
Patricia Brennan, James P. Adams Library:Some research shows that hadnwriting "wires" thingsx in the brain differently from computer use
Maida Tilchen:I agree with Priscilla - great idea
G Everett:Sorry, I'm coming late too this; but is there a difference between being Ender and, say, the bomber on the Enola Gay?
David J Matthes:Isn't this challenge of the moderators to keep up with tens of chats coming in simultaneously (as opposed to an in-person seminar where one person speaks at a time) exactly relevant to the limitations technology brings to us. It opens doors and yet also has its limiitations.
Cris2B:@Patricia -- that's fascinating.
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@Glen- Maybe not
Allison Bernknopf:manual writing is different learning from typing a bit but they are just different forms of muscle memory.
Priscilla Stadler:@Patricia - can you point us to any of that? sounds fascinating
Elena Garofoli:oops lost aduio
Ilene Frank:G Everett: The only thing that's different about Enola Gay and Ender is that Ender doesn't know that he's actually wiping out an entire race.
Cris2B:@G Everett -- good question. IMHO only that Ender didn't know he was killing millions/billions
David McCurry, TLT Group:Some drop out in Steve's audio...
Dolores Brzycki:no sound
Beck Andre, Lynn University:lost sound
emma bourassa:I think these kinds of stories are great to distance students from reality, have them question their values, then bring it back to reality- I like the What do you cherish and want not to lose? No right answers, but definitely an opportunity for perspective taking and learning
David McCurry, TLT Group:Not hearing Steve
G Everett:Didn't Joseph Heller address the morality involved in Catch-22?
mallen@colby-sawyer.edu:lost sound too...
David McCurry, TLT Group:No Steve audio...
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:@Priscilla- there were a number of simulations we did in the 70s which were aimed at helping participants see what the conflicts were made up of and suggested ways to break them down - or at least in the hands of a skilled facilitator
Maida Tilchen:I would look more at the the scientists who designed the bomb, not the soldier who dropped it.
Beth Dailey:Davis, it seems that the chat allows for so many different direction that as amoderator you can;t control. I see this lack of control as good.
Ilene Frank:Yep, Steve's audio going in and out.
Beck Andre, Lynn University:@G Everett - yes
Beth Dailey:I meant David
Cris2B:See I don't weight the computer aspect so heavily. I think that's an aside. It's more about helping individuals learn to make wise, humane decisions
Linda Serro:lost audio
Dolores Brzycki:the skilled facilitator helps provide context, I think
Beck Andre, Lynn University:more recently Babylon
Patricia Brennan, James P. Adams Library:Try this for "practical" application: http://www.tauberacademy.com/uploads/5/5/1/6/5516636/taubertimes10810.pdf
G Everett:also lost audio here
Priscilla Stadler:@Maida... in that case maybe we should be discussing the officers more...interesting
Beth Dailey:lost audio here as well
Joy Mark:Working with faculty members to expand into blended learning definitely is stretching their understanding of their control as instructor, @Beth
emma bourassa:now okay
Cris2B:y
Elena Garofoli:y
Linda Serro:yes
Beth Dailey:yes
Debra Andreadis, Denison University:yes
Ann Randall:lost audio here too.... yes, i can hear Eileen
Cris2B:y
Beck Andre, Lynn University:yes
David McCurry, TLT Group:Steve is back..
Linda Serro:yes
Ann Randall:yes, you're back
Leslie Harris:We've forgotten one educational aspect of Ender's Game. I can't remember the name of the famous general who is sent at light speed to come back and train Ender in the battles, but that is also a typical academic mentoring.
Maida Tilchen:Soldiers have a different set of obligations to obey orders- disobedience is a capital offense. Scientists do not.
David McCurry, TLT Group:OK now...
Allison Bernknopf:looking at officers/designers of the bombs versus soldiers is a good aspect to look at because ti goes to the issue of critical thinking versus being at a low level of thinking
Leslie Harris:Ender gets feedback after each of the battles against the buggers
Leslie Harris:Expert and student in one-on-one conversations
Elena Garofoli:@Leslie ah yes thanks for remembering
Elena Garofoli:very impt I think
David J Matthes:In the case of Ender's game, the fact that Ender didn't know he was killing real beings was no doubt vital to his continuing to do so. So in this case the "curricular designers" knew just what they were doing and exploited this aspect of the design to their ends. We might do similarthings in the design of our courses, with less lethal effect. We build into our assignments methods of preventing cheating, for exaample, without necessarily spelling it out to students what we're doing (or why).
Cris2B:@Beth -- me, too. Love all the different insights
G Everett:@Maida Tilchen -- the Nuremberg trials seem relevant
Patricia Brennan, James P. Adams Library:Structure in learning is NOT the same as manipulation which implies deceit/lies
Dolores Brzycki:but the children in Ender's Game did not know their actions had real consequences, did they? Obedience in a game is different from obedience in a real context. It does remind me of the experiment in the 60's where subjects of an experiment used high levels of pain that they thought was real on fellow subjects of the experiment
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:This discussion reminds me of two recent peices of news. 1- The inability of the gov. of south Sudan to intervene in the tribal genocide wrecking the new country. 2- the picture of the Guatemalan past president who seems to have been responsible for the brutal deaths of 6000,000 mayans in the mountains during the 80s.
Leslie Harris:What we would hope to gain from simulation/computer-based education: more effective education tailored to an individual's needs, allowing unique progress
Maida Tilchen:I think as an instructional designer myself, I tend to focus on the designers of the simulation and their responsibility. That's why I'm thinking about the scientists who designe the atom bomb
Allison Bernknopf:Hope to gain: better trained students to help with what I cherish most and that is human life. Those 2 go hand in hand
Joy Mark:I don't know that manipulation necessarily eimply deceit or untruth...I think it's more relationally based
Allison Bernknopf:well the students will be pharmacists
Leslie Harris:What we're afraid to lose - broad-based discussions of ethical and human issues. Discussions among a group of people, guided by a professor.
emma bourassa:What I would hope to gain is a balance between the technology and the personal
Dolores Brzycki:More attention to the context of simulation/games and applying the lessons to the real world
Beth Dailey:I hope not to lose the importance of honesty and transparency in the design and facilitation of learning.
Patricia Brennan, James P. Adams Library:Hope to gain: structure with TRANSPARENCY to students in use of tech
Anne Reever Osborne, Tusculum College:Wisdom to guide students in their educational choices; I cherish choice.
Arta Szathmar:People still need to know what is real and what is a game. Reminds me of little ones not knowing that cartoons are drawings.
Cris2B:To gain a world where all individuals have the opportunity to lead mindful, creative, humane lives. To lose -- the ability to question our assumptions and work at the "edge of our incompetence"
Priscilla Stadler:hope to always include element of questioning and critical thinking in any instruction I design ...which is mostly for faculty
Patricia Brennan, James P. Adams Library:Cherish: that the concrete compliment the virtual
Patrick Wiseman:Gain: (as a law prof) students better prepared for actual practice
emma bourassa:Don't want to lose sight of the power of 'live' interactions like role play that involve 'being' with the others in the task
Debra Andreadis, Denison University:What I hope to gain in computer-based education is scalabiltiy. What I don't want to loose is the connection we have with our students. I am not sure that those are compatible with each other.
G Everett:I'm back to "Mark Hopkins and a student on two ends of a log"
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:These thoughts are the best gift for a Friday afternoon! Thanks
Maida Tilchen:I second Priscilla - incorporating critical thinking and questioning into instruction
Patrick Wiseman:Fear to lose: the opportunities that f2f education gives us to play with ideas
emma bourassa:Patricia, nice and succinct!
Dolores Brzycki:great answer from Dennison
Arta Szathmar:I do use online training for students in learning office 2011 and it is a wonderful tool. Just a tool though, and it will not replace me as an instructor. I am the guide on the side.
Cris2B:@Patricia -- like that Sherry Turkle writes of "the virtual enhancing the actual" and vice versa
Cris2B:In YA lit, it seems that the parents have to be done away with or totally ineffective so that the YAs can solve their own problems
Allison Bernknopf:different societies have different rules/values. So it is a problem for many of us here who value the family role. Like many of us can't understand how a child could be used as a suicide bomber
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:OSC suffered a mild stroke on Saturday 1 January 2011OSC suffered a mild stroke on Saturday 1 January 2011. He is now back home, retraining his brain so that the fingers of his left hand strike the keys he's aiming for. He will not be responding to most emails because his typing time must be devoted to finishing his fiction. But he is grateful for your good wishes and he promises not to die with any series unfinished.For the foreseeable future, OSC will not make any public appearances or undertake any travel. Since his speech is unimpaired, he will still conduct radio and recorded interviews.
Cris2B:oh no
Cris2B:what a sense of humor, too
Joy Mark:Like to gain the understanding that learning is *not* an individual activity (especially in context of "manipulating" students to be societal contributors)
Ilene Frank:I like his promise not to die before completing his series!
Priscilla Stadler:glad he's recovering...that's quite a promise about no unfinished series!
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:I can stretch my head to understand the child, but I cannot stretch to understand the adult who makes this a possibilty.
Priscilla Stadler:we're able to read transcript of our chat?
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Yes, the transcript will be aavailable
Maida Tilchen:I'm find the idea of immersive peace and negotiation simulations very intriguing. I've been involved with designing negotation ones. But I'd like to hear of other efforts.
Dolores Brzycki:how do we solve the problems posed by this book: keep the connection with the real, establish context for simulation and gaming and online learning, keep meaning and emotional implications
Priscilla Stadler:great - thanks & have some water!
William Vilberg:How about asking one question a day and let us all respond?
Debra Andreadis, Denison University:He was actually at ALA Annual in 2011, so his recovery has come a long way.
emma bourassa:watch for similar themes of the role of the child as a part of society and/or contrasts. I"m particularly interested in the language used to identify the distancing from the human aspect. Or, look at how games are promoted- how do they advertise?
David McCurry, TLT Group:This link will open the archived recording of this event. It will be available just after we close the session today:http://connectpro86502729.adobeconnect.com/p2jhqwq59ye/
David McCurry, TLT Group:Thanks everyone, for coming and participating in today's session.
William Vilberg:Things like Sally's question: How could the adult who make this all possible do what he did?
Maida Tilchen:Also, how can we make teaching critical thinking as exciting to learners as blowing people up?
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:sallygilbert@tltgroup.org
Priscilla Stadler:@ Maida...exactly!!!!!!!
Beck Andre, Lynn University:thanks everyone!
Leslie Harris:Thanks for a great session. I need to leave for an appointment with a faculty member. ;-)
Cris2B:@Maida -- I think we could teach problem-solving so it's that exciting
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Yeah Maida!
William Vilberg:No Friday Live next week?
Cris2B:Thx to all. Enjoyed the discussion.
Priscilla Stadler:thanks everyone!
Debra Andreadis, Denison University:Thank you! Great session.
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:There is a FridayLive - a really interesting one with Alice Brown about her new book.
Arta Szathmar:Thank you,
emma bourassa:Very lively discussion- thanks for expanding my thinking and providing sources.
Ann Randall:Thanks so much! Just made my membership worthwhile. :)
Patrick Wiseman:Thanks - have to go - but this was interesting.
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Thanks Ann
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Ilene, Bill, Sally, Cris2B?
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Question a day in the blog?
Beth Dailey:Great session. Have a great weekend everyone
Joel Littlejohn:Thanks for all the information in the he chat, a very nice session.
Ilene Frank:Thanks for coming!
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Cris2B - have a mic?
Cris2B:Yes, I'd love to try my mic
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:BillV - discussion board, journal, group blog .... daily question?
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:OK, we'll go next to Cris2B
Cris2B:Could do a Google + and even try a hangout
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Cris2B, lick on the mic icon near the top
Arta Szathmar:How about a googlegroup.
Cris2B:Quora is also a good question tool
emma bourassa:If you were the author, what other ending would you write?
Cris2B:No, only adjust volume -- no connect
Ilene Frank:Yeah! That's working!
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Good to here your new voice Cris!
jane marcus:lost the link to the microsoft research site -- please sent it again!
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:p. 35 Graf quote "individual human beings are all tools"
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:What's the other half?
Ilene Frank:Good point! What IS it?
William Vilberg:GR3AT QUESTION
Cris2B:well, I got my idea
Dolores Brzycki:The part that can think critically, make choices, connect emotionally with reality
jane marcus:not able to scroll up to the beginning of the chat
Ilene Frank:Yep - we can hear!
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:jane - entire transcript will be avail on the homebase webpage by monday (maybe this afternoon)
Cris2B:so yes, tools and storytellers
Ilene Frank:Yes, by the end of the book, Ender does find a way to save the buggers from total extinction.
G Everett:what's the line about "the other half"?
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Jane - the link to the whole transcript will on the home base web page.
Cris2B:thx for working thru that mic thing with me
Joy Mark:that humans as tools is only a half truth
Cris2B:Humans are tools and . . . storytellers p. 35 Individual human beings are all tools, that the others use to help us all survive.That’s a lie.No. It’s just a half truth. You can worry about the other half after we win this war. P. 35
Ilene Frank:Here's part of it "Human beings are free except when humanity needs them. Maybe humanity needs you. To do something."
emma bourassa:We are tools and users of tools
David J Matthes:That we can be autonous agents with our own agendas -- once the threat (war with the buggers) is over
Cris2B:tool is not a bad thing. We just have to use them wisely. James Burke and the Axe-Maker's Gift
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:the tool shapes the process
Micul Ann Morse, TLT Group:who decides how to use the tool?
G Everett:Again, Isn't this the question of the Nuremberg trials?
Ilene Frank:Steve, you picked the right book!
William Vilberg:Is a professor a tool because s/he is giving his/her knowledge and experience to help others?
Joy Mark:it be interesting to see Card so a rewrite that brought in the cultural phenomenon of social media
Cris2B:@David -- I like that.
Peg S:You've inspired me to read this book even though I know the ending :) This is like an online book club!
Ilene Frank:Is having a role the same as being a "tool" as we are discussing here?
Micul Ann Morse, TLT Group:lost Steve's audio
Joy Mark:Steve, I think it's time for a new mic! : )
emma bourassa:I'd like to see how to manage a related task online. Have folks come up with any 'experiential' tasks to engage students? Mayb e not for novels but something t hat ocould be used in this context?
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:Peg =- what would you like us to read next?
Ilene Frank:Peg, do read the book. I don't think knowing the ending matters - anyway there's a tad more to the ending than we discussed here.
Cris2B:You'll enjoy getting inside Ender's head, Peg
Micul Ann Morse, TLT Group:send me your suggestions - morse@tltgroup.org
Peg S:I'll check with colleagues, I'm a terrible person to ask!
emma bourassa:The Hanmaiden- Margaret Atwood
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:I think i'm back again!
emma bourassa:woops HanDmaiden
Ilene Frank:Some other sci fi about education: http://goo.gl/Spcu8
Ilene Frank:ilene.frank@gmail.com
Cris2B:Cool. Thx, Ilene
Peg S:somewhere, I have an entire list along with education-related movies. Will send when I find it!
emma bourassa:I think there is an opportunity to include songs as well- protest songs/statment song such as The Talking Heads "Nothing but flowers"
Peg S:Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance
G Everett: I think the suggestion was a question a day
David J Matthes:"Theirs not to make reply,Theirs not to reason why,Theirs but to do and die:Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred." -Tennyson. I think the use of people as tools happens during war time, and probably other crisis or high-stakes situations. But we as a society are much worse off if we don't seek to do better, to educate citizens to be creative problem solvers, innovators, and reflectors on how things are...
emma bourassa:Time and space is important- maybe start with short time needs- a song/ a movie..?
Peg S:For your reading pleasure, this is Darwin Hendel’s list of books that relate to college student development.Amis, K. (1953). Lucky Jim. New York: Viking Press. Barthelme, F. (2003). Elroy nights. New York: Counterpoint.Bellow, Saul. (1982). The dean’s December.Berry, Wendel. (1977). The unsettling of America. San Francisco: Sierra Club Books. (Walter HD1761.B47)Brownrigg, S. (2001). Pages for you. New York: Farrar, Straus & Giroux.Caldwell, I., & Thomason, D. (2004). The rule of four. Dial Publishing.Cary, L. (1991). Black ice. New York: Alfred A KnopfCoetze, (1999). Disgrace.Comer, J. (1988). Maggie’s American dream. New York: New American Library.Conway, J. K. (2001). A woman’s education: The road from Corrain to Smith College New York: Alfred A. Knopf.Crowley, J. (2002). The translator. New York: William Morrow.Cruikshank, J. (2004). Murder at the B-School.Dobson, J. (2000). Cold and pure and very dead. DoubledayDubois, Diana. (1982). My Harvard, my Yale. Random House Publishers:
Elena Garofoli:thank you.gtg
Peg S:That was Darwin's list in 2007 :)
Cris2B:y
Sally Gilbert, TLT Group:yes
Ilene Frank:We can hear!
Peg S:yes, we can hear you!
Micul Ann Morse, TLT Group:thanks everyone - great session - have to go now
Joy Mark:does TLT have a Ning page?
emma bourassa:Are we looking at use of technology in education or how to use a text? Or both?
Steve Gilbert, TLT Group:Plan future FridayLive! in 2 parts... A. Tools for sharing, organizing, ranking suggestions B. Suggestions for reading/ watching... media stimulating good discussion re future/present of education
Cris2B:So sorry but must run. I'll check the transcript to see what transpired. Many thanks!
Ilene Frank:Thanks for coming!
emma bourassa:okay thanks
John Munro:anecdotes could be helpful
emma bourassa:and how people could/would use with a class
Peg S:Thank you!
David J Matthes:Thanks!
emma bourassa:have a good weekend all. Look forward to the next session.
John Munro:thanks!!
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Ender’s Test Examples & Dimensions or Categories
Monkhouse
Nate could not have understood the mechanisms by which the exercises were preparing him to say “R”s. Parents didn’t need to understand those mechanisms;
STUDENT DOES/DOESN’T NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE MECHANISMS SO WELL THAT HE/SHE COULD USE THEM TO TEACH OTHERS
Fla. online teacher’s wife
Export to India - Stanford big online course, iPhone 4S Siri
Trust
Transparency
When does it matter that the learner knows the identity and intentions of the course designer, teacher?
When does it matter if the learner understands the means by which assignments contribute to the stated [mutually understood] goal of the course?
NOTE
closely related "real" vs. "artificial" issues
student identity, authentication plagiarism... how does someone know that the student who is registered is who he/she says? not some other person or AI construct?
what about nancy Cooley example of teacher who's wife was really doing much of the coursework without the students' awareness?
GET NEW YORKER CARTOON W TEACHING MACHINE AT FRONT OF CLASSRROOM & RECORDING MACHINES INSTEAD OF STUDENTS AT EACH DESK
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